Just the other day I posted that Christians should be wary of God “experiences.” Although there are many prominent promoters of practices that claim to be ways to hear directly from God (other than by reading the Bible), it is my fear that these are really paths toward self-deception or worse.
As a follow up I’d like to share my thoughts about a book whose author purports to have received messages from God (which she turned into a bestselling book).
A couple months ago I was given a devotional book called Jesus Calling, and although I never read devotionals I began to examine the book. What I found shocked me. The author, Sarah Young, claims to have received revelations from Jesus through dialogue journaling (something she learned from two “listeners” who wrote another book called God Calling. I’ll get to that in a minute). Her book is even written as if Jesus is speaking those messages directly to the reader, which I personally think borders (or crosses into) blasphemy.
Alarm bells began to clang in my head.
Young writes that a year after reading that book, God Calling, “I began to wonder if I, too, could receive messages during my times of communing with God. I had been writing in prayer journals for years, but that was one-way communication: I did all the talking. I knew that God communicated with me through the Bible, but I yearned for more…”
The first question that I think needs to be asked. Is it Biblically appropriate to desire more revelation from God?
2 Timothy 3: 13-17 gives a warning about false teaching as well as an admonition to hold to the scriptures which were given to us by God: “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
If we can be “thoroughly furnished unto all good works,” then the scriptures are sufficient for our relationship with Christ. We should study them diligently and be transformed by “the renewing of our minds.” We should certainly yearn for more understanding of the scriptures, and more transformation of our hearts and lives, but I see no biblical admonitions to yearn for more than the Bible.
Additionally, Acts 20:20 states: “You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house.”
The reformers called relying on scriptures solely as the authority for the Christian faith (and sufficient for the faith) the principle of Sola Scriptura. Equip.org offers a very full and rich explanation of Sola Scriptura (I recommend you read it!), but for the sake of brevity they define sufficiency of scripture as “all that is necessary for faith and practice.” It was one of the key principles of protestantism.
It is obvious Young does not hold to that doctrine. Rather she seeks and accepts experiential, subjective and by the sound of it, mystical, personal revelation.
It is my view that abandonment of the sufficiency of the Bible opens us up to all kinds of deception (self-deception as well as demonic deception). The Bible even warns us that our hearts are “deceitful” in the book of Jeremiah. The Bible proclaims itself to be authoritative, whereas experiences are entirely subjective. If extra-biblical revelation is acceptable then how can it be verified?
Occult-like Practices
Young claims in her book that her one-way journaling became “dialogue” (two-way conversation) with Jesus. Yet, she admits that her journaling was “not inspired as Scripture is,” but still she writes each daily devotional as if Jesus was speaking those words Young heard. This is completely illogical. If Jesus was in fact speaking to Young, then his words would have to be authoritative because Jesus is God. There is no way for him not to be authoritative.
In another of her books she writes, “My first devotional book, Jesus Calling grew out of writings gleaned from my times of focused concentration of Jesus: waiting in His Presence, listening in my mind for His communications. As I listened and wrote, I continually asked for the Holy Spirit’s help … I wrote Dear Jesus in the same listening-to-God mode that I used with Jesus Calling. I’ve continued to write with the help of Christs’s Spirit, who guides my thinking while I listen in His Presence. I believe the Bible is the only infallible Word of God. My writings are based on that absolute standard, and I try to ensure they are consistent with Scripture.”
This is a root problem of personal revelation — you cannot know for certain that the internal voice you are hearing is God, yourself or from the devil. So she purports to write what Jesus told her, but she had to vet those words to “ensure they are consistent with Scripture.” I have a better idea. Study the actual words of God that have already been given to us. I’m sure there is plenty more in the Bible to challenge, convict, teach and change each and every believer for the rest of their life on earth even without whispers in your mind.
In my view, waiting and listening for the voice of God is a recipe for deception.
Dr. Gary Gilley, pastor of Southern View Chapel, has written a very compelling case for the Sola Scriptura position in his book “Is that You Lord? Hearing the voice of the Lord: A Biblical Perspective.” (One of the best books I’ve read) In it he wrote that, “I believe with the closure of Scripture, direct, infallible, authoritative revelation from God has ceased for this age.” I would have to agree.
Gilley’s book makes a much more thorough case than I can here for the “full Sola Scriptura” view that “God speaks today exclusively through the authoritative, inspired Word which needs no supplementation from any other source. This is not to deny ‘general revelation’ from God’s creation which tells us something of the power and glory of the Creator … but when it comes to ‘specific revelation’ we do not expect our Lord to speak to us apart from the Scriptures.”
Perhaps you are a believer who disagrees and does believe God still speaks apart from the Bible today. If so, we are still commanded to test the spirits, so Jesus Calling and the book that influenced Sarah Young still need to be tested against God’s Word.
The Serious Errors of God Calling
Young writes that “One morning as I prayed, I visualized God protecting each of us. I pictured first our daughter, then our son, and then Steve encircles by God’s protective Presence, which looked like golden light. When I prayed for myself, I was suddenly enveloped in brilliant light and profound peace…”
This sounds very similar to New Age and Occult accounts. Visualization is a popular occult practice because practitioners believe that they can create reality by imagining it into existence. Let Us Reason Ministries and others have warned about the “Christianization” of such practices. Slapping a “Christian” label on a pagan practice does not make it acceptable to God. The Bible actually warns against divination, witchcraft (Deut. 18:10-12) and adopting pagan religious practices (Matt. 6:7 “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”)
Young’s two-way journaling (her method of receiving messages from “Jesus”) also sounds very similar to automatic writingand use of spirit guides prevalent in the occult. On this point I consulted Marcia Montenegro of Christian Answers for the New Age who told me, “I see no scriptural basis for this technique, which is akin to automatic writing. I do believe the Lord leads Christians through His word and convicts through the Holy Spirit (and His word), but that is entirely different from sitting down, being ‘still’ (and misusing a scripture for this technique), and ‘listening’ for Jesus to speak to you.”
As is often the case with such experiences, humans begin to value them over the authoritative truth of scripture. That obviously happened to Young since she says the experience of hearing from God “became the high point” of her days. If that was the high point, studying the Bible had become less important. Another cautionary sign.
The Bible does not command us to sit and listen for God to speak to us, so it is important to determine where Young came by this practice. As I mentioned earlier, she credits a book called, God Calling, for introducing her to the concept. I managed to track down a review of that book from Lighting the Way International and reprinted by Lighthouse Trails Research.
The two anonymous “listeners” who used automatic handwriting (or something very similar) to write that book claimed the messages were from Jesus, but were they? Testing the “revelations” of God Calling solely against Scripture should also cause us to reject it and be very concerned about its influence over Young.
They claim that Jesus told them multiple times to “Be channels…” Channeling is a New Age/occult practice of communicating with spirit guides. Such divination is forbidden in Scripture.
Dwayna Litz and Charisse Graves, the reviewers of God Calling, also found this passage in the book: “Discipline and perfect yourselves at all costs. Do this for soon every fleeting thought will be answered, every wish gratified, every deed used. It is a fearful Power, almighty [sic] Power. Oh! Be careful that you ask nothing amiss-nothing that is not according to My Spirit. All thoughts harmful must be turned out. Miracle-working power can become witchery in wrong hands. See how necessary I have made the purity and goodness of your own lives to you. That is why. Soon, very soon, you shall ask and at once it will come. Welcome the training. Without it I dare not give you this Power. [sic] It would do harm.” [Jan. 6]
The true God cannot give us power that would do harm and he would never advocate “witchery.”
The book also promotes thinking of God as a “Mother” rather than a Father. But as Jesus taught his disciples to pray, he specifically instructed them to “Pray then, in this way: Our Father who is in heaven …” In just these few excerpts it is clear that the book runs contrary to Scripture, yet it is the book that had such a profound influence on Sarah Young that she claims to have also become a conduit for Jesus’ words!
Another criticism listed by the reviewers of God Calling was that, “Just like Satan in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:5), the whispered message of God Calling is “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God.” To support that claim, they cited this passage: “To dwell in thought on the material, when once you live in Me, – is to call it into being. So you must be careful only to think of and desire that which will help, not hinder, your spiritual growth. The same law operates too on the spiritual plane. Think Love and Love surrounds you and all about whom you think, Think thoughts of ill-will and ill surrounds you, and those about whom you think. Think health – health comes. The physical reflects the mental and spiritual.”
God Calling contradicts the written Word of God over and over, and yet this is the book that convinced Young she might also be able to hear such messages from Jesus.
What’s this about the Presence?
Another reason to be cautious about Young’s so-called words from Jesus has to do with the way she is always talking about the Presence of God with a capital “P.” It calls to mind, “Practicing the Presence” of God, which is also the name of a book by mystic monk Brother Lawrence. Lawrence, as a Carmelite monk, would have been influenced by Teresa of Avila who had been “affected by Jewish Kabbalistic mysticism, elements of which can be detected in her writings,” according to Ursula King (H/T LHT).
I found Brother Lawrence view connected with Zen and Karma yoga on one “christian mystics” website.
Although many claim such mysticism is Christian and is actually something desirable, it can actually be traced back to eastern religion and is not supported by Scripture.
To quote Gregory Koukl of Stand to Reason about hearing from God: “Does the Bible teach that we are to seek this kind of guidance? The answer is no. It does not teach that we are seek this kind of guidance. Does the Bible teach that we are to expect this kind of guidance? Again the answer is no. And since the Bible doesn’t teach that we have to learn this skill, since it doesn’t teach that we are to seek this kind of guidance, since it doesn’t teach that we are to expect this kind of guidance, then I don’t know what all the folderol is about…”
He notes that “This teaching that God will whisper in your ear all kind of particulars that pertain to you and His will for your life is very appealing to Christians. Even though when you look at the Scriptures, the specialized directions are rare. They are unusual. They are usually unsought. And they are always crystal clear. None of this ‘I think the Lord is telling me’ business.”
I agree with him. I believe God can speak to us directly, but I don’t believe he generally does outside of his word and the conviction of the Holy Spirit. So perhaps there are rare instances where God chooses to give direct instruction, but it will never in any way contradict his written word. However, there is no biblical direction to sit and listen for such messages from him and we especially should not be shutting off our minds through a mantric method in order to get insight.
Closing Thoughts
Christians have run wild seeking experiences from God that the holy scriptures do not direct them to. Young’s popular book is just one of many in this vein: from Blackaby’s “Experiencing God” to Bill Hybel’s “The Power of a Whisper” to many, many others.
It is my fear that this is shipwrecking Christians by leading them into deception. Already pastors have visions or give false prophecies, yet their congregants don’t abandon them. Worse, many of their congregants may not even recognize the error.
Meanwhile biblical illiteracy is rampant.
This is a truly dangerous mixture. Proper understanding of the Bible is necessary to test everything we see and hear from others and in our own minds.
If we reject the “full Sola Scriptura” position and accept that such personal revelation from God is possible (or worse – commonplace), how can we know that what we (or others) are hearing is from God? After all, Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
It becomes much more difficult (although not impossible) to combat false revelations that others claim to have had if we accept extrabiblical revelation. For example, the Mormons say that Joseph Smith had a vision from the Lord and Neil Donald Walsh claims he had multiple “Conversations with God.”
Related articles
- Be Wary of Needing an Experience (steakandabible.com)
- Hearing God’s Voice (Stand to Reason)
- Book Review of Jesus Calling (Challies.com)
- An Open Letter to Jesus Calling Readers Part 1 (YeHaveHeard.com)
- An Open Letter to Jesus Calling Readers Part 2 (YeHaveHeard.com)
- Is That You Lord? by Gary Gilley (link to amazon.com)
When I was a teenager, our youth pastor — a very enthusiastic guy, but not very mature, either in his faith or his personality — invited some kook to speak to us who taught this kind of “dialogue journaling.” Even being the kid I was, and lacking any grounding at all in doctrine, it struck me as very wrong and unbiblical. My younger brother and some other people in the youth group were briefly taken in by it, but I told my dad, and he had a serious talk with the youth pastor, and I think he straightened it out. But it is scary how easily this kind of teaching can slip and be embraced by well-meaning Christians who, like me, don’t have any kind of doctrinal grounding. And so much of evangelical culture is outright abandoning doctrinal substance for “feel-good” messages, or at the Charismatic end of things, “power” and “fire” — really excitement and ecstasy. Charismatic Christianity, I’ve read, incorporates New Age concepts in other ways, to drive people into that ecstatic feeling.
You’re right. These people are abandoning the proper teaching of sola scriptura. I read the article you posted; that is a good and clear and ideal definition, and I wish more Protestants I knew adhered to it.
I’m glad that it says Scripture is the final authority — I know so many Christians who think sola scriptura means Scripture is the only authority, and that it’s both unnecessary and even wrong to have any magisterial or ecclesial authority — resulting in pastors who give suggestions instead of real, authoritative teachings. As I was saying before, the problem is less sola scriptura itself than the direction popular evangelicalism has taken it, using that as a lever to reject any other authority. In the Second-Great-Awakening tradition, the focus is so much on personal experience and emotion.
Hi Joseph – I’m glad that at such a young age you showed discernment on this issue. I fear it is now so widespread that such reluctance is rare.
As for Sola Scriptura, please don’t misunderstand. I was emphasizing the finality of Sola Scripture because it related to this particular issue. I would agree with it also being the only authority (with the following clarification). I think pastors who teach from the Bible properly are teaching authoritatively, not because they are an authority – but because the word of God is. Any who deviate from it, add to it or pervert it are wrong and are not authoritative. It is the scripture itself that commands its authority.
The Bible commands individual believers to know, study, understand and adhere to the Bible. I believe that if Jesus has regenerated us and the Holy Spirit lives inside us we are capable of understanding much of the Bible without a teacher. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t sit under wise teaching and preaching. It means we cannot merely sit under someone’s teaching, we must compare what they say to the Bible (as the Bereans were commended for doing). The scriptures also command teachers to be careful to study the Bible, know it and teach it faithfully without adding to it or subtracting from it. I don’t subscribe to any sort of elitism. I love my pastor and listening to him preach, but I do not believe that he or any other person is infallible at interpreting the word of God. And I believe everyone should be scrutinized.
We are commanded to fellowship with other believers, and I think to hear the Word preached, but also to study it for ourselves and compare what we hear to the Bible. To abandon either is disobedience I think. In regards to the Catholic/Protestant disagreement about Sola Scriptura you might find Dr. James White’s book on the subject interesting (http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Catholic-Controversy-James-White/dp/1556618190). I haven’t finished reading it yet, but I think he uses solid argumentation, exegesis and is intellectually honest is presenting each side of the dispute.
I’ll give you a fuller reply later, because I’m on my iPad, eating a burrito, about to watch fireworks, but I wanted to excitedly say that I have that book.
I bought it on a thrifting quest because it looked to be intellectually honest and solid, as you say. I haven’t read it yet, but I may bump it to the top of my queue so I can discuss it with you.
Okay, a few minutes until it’s fully dark, so I will see if I can reply now. Don’t misunderstand me, either: What I’m complaining about is Protestants who think Scripture is the only authority they need, in the sense that they don’t need any instruction or guidance in how to interpret it, and don’t have to listen if it is offered. When I say Scripture should be the final authority, but not the only authority, I mean authority not in the infallible sense, but in the sense that some people, e.g. trained theologians and exegetes and Bible scholars or the even well-trained pastors, know more what they’re talking about than others. The kind of thinking that says, I don’t need none of your fancy book learning, I can read the Bible just as good as you. Not to deride the poorly educated — I am a teacher and want to help educate people — but the Bible is not an easy book. And if Scripture were truly perspicous, we would not have such a multiplicity of interpretations, each supported by so many of the well-trained authorities I’m talking about. Heck, we wouldn’t have any division at all, since there would be no doubt at all what Scripture teaches. Protestant scholars are no smarter than Catholic scholars, and both approach Scripture with the utmost honesty and best intentions — and yet on many points, their interpretations are irreconcilably opposed. One of those, justification by faith alone, Protestants claim us the “plainest” point of all. But it’s not plain to Catholics. And if degreed scholars can’t agree on interpretations, then it’s easy to see why the uneducated on the ground, who lack the knowledge to properly interpret Scripture or outright reject it, so easily lose sight of orthodoxy.
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That’s a really good warning Julia. I followed Joseph’s link here and am glad I did.
Thank you for the encouragement.
You’re most welcome. I am enjoying reading what you write
Also, randomly, I’ve been wanting to comment: That’s a gorgeous Bible you have in your banner. Such lovely type and pleasing layout. What is it?
It’s my Thompson Chain Reference Bible, but the picture was edited a bit.
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Hi. Interesting observations. I must however disagree with you somewhat. While I do agree that scripture must be our final authority, Christianity is about a relationship, and there will always be times and situations when the Bible by itself is inadequate to direct and guide the child of God. Our relationship is not with the Bible. It is with a person; a personal risen living Saviour. Jesus Himself said He would send His Spirit to teach us and lead us into truth. A relationship bespeaks intimacy, involvement, conversation, friendship. I can testify of many incidents in my past when I know God was speaking to me through His Spirit at times to encourage, at others in censure, but always in love.
While I concur with your warnings against new age mysticism and occultic deceptions, one must never throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I don’t think Julia is saying that God doesn’t speak to us intimately; but such intimate conversation won’t ever contradict the Bible (since God is Truth and will not contradict himself). If it does, then you can be certain that what you’re “hearing” isn’t really God. I think (and I think Julia would agree) that it’s more often that God speaks to us through His written Word.
I didn’t quite see that in the article…my take was that she was against any idea of God speaking to us outside of His written word. I agree with your slant on the subject.
Hello. I agree that Christianity is about relationship with Jesus. However, the Bible is the only reliable way of understanding who our relationship is with and what our attitude toward him should be. I agree that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth – but I think that primarily means giving us understanding of the revealed truth (in scripture). The Spirit convicts of sin, reminds us of truth revealed in the Bible, etc. Is that him speaking? I supposed one could call it that. But I emphatically reject the idea that he will speak anything contrary to the Bible.
I also think that we should be seeking to hear from him through scripture, not through other means. God is certainly powerful enough to speak to us through other means if he chooses, but I see no biblical basis for seeking to hear from God outside of scripture (especially through mystical means).
I hope that clarifies my position. I recommend Gary Gilley’s fuller treatment of this subject in “Is That You, Lord.”
When I said ‘outside the written word’ I certainly wasn’t inferring that God would contradict Himself. However, there are situations where the Bible simply does not speak.
The gift of prophecy is meant for the church until we are perfected..that time has not yet come.
I well remember when I was first saved in 1976. I was living away from my hometown on the other side of the country. A few short weeks into my new life with Christ two people, a
friend and a pastor, both told me they believed God was using them to inform me that I needed to return home. I subsequently spent the next week praying on this matter and
at the end of the week decided to do just that. I had no job nor place to stay, yet God honoured my faith and obedience by providing me with precisely the job I asked for within 2 days of my arrival, and a place to live the next day. Because I was young in Him He chose to speak through others…now I have grown up somewhat He now speaks to me direct…sometimes through His word, sometimes through providence, sometimes in a still small voice…and if I’m too busy, or deaf, He will resort to using any means He can just to get my attention…
Let us not limit God…as you say, He is powerful enough to speak in any way He chooses, like through a donkey for example. After all, He is God. And don’t forget this… And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying,This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.
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Joseph, you mentioned earlier the role of ecclesiastical authority and its relationship with ‘sola scriptura’. Many misunderstand the Roman tradition on this subject. Rome does not view scripture as the final authority, and have her bishops as mere official commentators. The magisterium has total authority. If the scripture say white and the magisterium say black, the Catholic faithful are obligated to accept the magisterium authoirty even though it directly contradicts the written word.
Hmm, no, that’s not the way it works. “Total authority” implies that there is no other authority; and the bishops fully acknowledge the supreme authority of both Scripture and Tradition. They are merely arbiters (“commentators” isn’t a very description). They gather everything they can on a reading — all the modern scholarship, all the prior commentary by Fathers and popes and councils on the passage — and prayerfully make a scholarly, informed judgment. They could not say “black” was “white” unless there was an overwhelming tradition in the Early Church, and a valid textual argument in the manuscripts, that “black” really meant “white.” They have the authority to say “black” is “white” — but their real authority comes from the authority of the Scripture and Tradition they’re interpreting. They can’t make an argument that their authorities can’t support.
I made a long post yesterday in which I dealt with this very question — reviewing the book that Julia asked me to review. I’d appreciate your comments and critiques of my critique.
The following is a quote from a writer of the 19th century, but whose view I believe is still pertinent to today.
It may be worth while to explain, one for all, that if Catholics do not read the Bible in the same way as Protestants do, it is not, as Protestants assert, because the teaching of their Church is such as to dread being confronted face to face with Scripture, nor because they less fully believe than any Protestant can do in the inspiration of Scripture; but simply because they do not believe in their own individual inspiration as interpreters of Scripture. Scripture they well know can make no mistake; but they are in no way sure that they themselves can make no mistake as to what Scripture means. They believe that there is one authorized interpreter of Scripture, and one alone,― the Holy Catholic Church, which is divinely guarded from all possibility of error, being informed by the same Holy Spirit by whom Scripture was inspired, and therefore alone able to penetrate its real meaning. Her interpretation of it he trusts with unhesitating certainty; while to trust any crude theories he might himself be tempted to form respecting it, would seem to him simply ridiculous
Thus he [the Catholic] never dreams of reading Holy Scripture with the view of gathering from it the articles of his belief; indeed, to do so would be to cease at once from being a Catholic in heart; and any one reading Scripture in this spirit, or in danger of doing so, would certainly be forbidden to read it at all, if he desired to continue in the communion of the faithful; for he would be virtually denying that the Church is the sole infallible interpreter of Scripture, whereas the acknowledgment of her as such is the very fundamental principle of Catholicism. Catholics, then, do not study the Scripture to learn their faith, but to grow in holiness….
While Catholics acknowledge but one authoritative interpreter, Protestants hold that every man in his own interpreter; that from “the Bible and the Bible only” every man is bound to learn all that he must believe in order to be saved; that if he prays for the help of God’s Holy Spirit, this alone, without human aid, will guard him from all material error; that no church, no body of men, no teacher whatever has any Divine authority to interpret Scripture for him; he must do it for himself, and he can.
Quote:…Traditions, it will be seen, are placed before the Bible in this [Roman Catholic] epitome of faith. Indeed, the Word of God, as a rule of belief and conduct is, in effect, done away; and the interpretations of the church are put in its place. So that in every case, the inquiry of the faithful Romanist must be — not what saith the scripture — but, what saith “Mother Church?” Not to follow the church, however opposed she may be to the Bible, would be a violation of his oath.
The celebrated Council of Trent, which was called by a Bull of Pope Paul III, in the year 1542, decreed that the Roman Catholic church received and venerated with equal affection of piety and reverence, the Bible and traditions.
When, however, tradition was not in accordance with the Word of God, it would be manifestly impossible to conform to this decree, unless a man could conscientiously receive and reverence a truth and its opposite error at the same time. And therefore, to relieve the conscience of the Romanist, it was necessary that the right of interpreting the Bible should be given exclusively to Mother Church, who is also the keeper of Tradition. Hence the Papist has, in fact and strictly speaking, only one standard of faith, and that is neither the Bible nor Tradition, but the Church. He professes, indeed, to acknowledge both the scripture and tradition; but he is really bound to receive and obey whatever Mother Church declares to be the truth as contained in the Bible and Tradition. She must decide for him in every case, and from her judgment there can be no appeal.
Tradition is one of the most essential subjects of dispute between Protestants and Romanists. The Romanists declare that the Scriptures alone are not sufficient for Salvation; but that there is the word of God, by hearsay, which is superior to the word of God in writing. By this hearsay, for tradition is nothing else, they assure the world that the Scripture must be explained; so that if the Scripture says white, and tradition says black, a Roman Catholic is bound to say, that white means black in God’s written word
Does this person have a name? What is the source for this quotation?
I guess it is bedtime where you are, so I went ahead and did some googling about this source. That in a moment. First I want to stay that I come to Julia’s blog to comment on her stuff, and if I go off on Roman tangents, it’s not to criticize her views or assert that mine are correct, but because I think it might shed an interesting light. In this case, my point, as I tried to make clear (not sure I did such a good job; I do get excited), was not to criticize sola scriptura so much as to point out what I think is a problem in the direction some evangelicals have taken it — which I do think is relevant to her original post, about people who publish their “personal revelations” that are contrary to the Word of God. If you want to read criticism of sola scriptura or engage in debate about Catholicism, you’re welcome to come to my blog, but that’s not really the point here in Julia’s.
That said: this quote you’ve given me — it appears to be bastardized, probably from being passed around the Internet in anti-Catholic groups. The fact that you didn’t identify it makes me wonder if you even know what it is. Parts of it are correct, orthodox Catholic views, which are true and with which I agree — but they have been spliced with another source of anti-Catholic rhetoric, which is patently false and misleading and untrue. The presence of words like “Romanist” and “papist” should tip you off to top — those words are disparaging and offensive to Catholics. I suspect while being passed around, the identifying citations were lost, and this was unbeknownst to you — but this is not all once source, but at least two. The moral: please know what you’re citing and where it came from before you go spreading it around. Also, please don’t treat me as if I don’t know my own Church. I didn’t become Catholic on a whim, but studied this and have been immersed in this for a while.
This is one of the two sources, the Catholic one:
The Clifton Tracts, published by the Brotherhood of St. Vincent de Paul, vol. II (London: Burns and Lambert, 1851).
And here is the other one, the anti-Catholic one:
Rev. Anthony Gavin*, A History of Popery (Hartford, Conn.: Case, Tiffany, and Burnham, 1845).
* Anthony Gavin claims on the frontispiece to be a “Roman Catholic priest,” but was actually a parson in Virginia — and his invective against Catholicism is more or less pure fiction. See “Anthony Gavin’s A Master-Key to Popery: A Virginia Parson’s Best Seller”, in the Virginia Magazine of History and Biography 82 (Jan 1974): 39-46. (You can only view the first page here, but I could get you the full article if you’re interested.)
Again, I’d like to invite you to blog. Peace be with you.
Blech. I really should proofread. “The presence of words like . . . should tip you off to that. And I’d like to invite you to my blog.
Also: If you are at all interested, the clearest, fullest, and most authoritative statement on the Catholic view toward Scripture and Tradition, and the role and actions of the Magisterium, is the Second Vatican Council’s Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, Dei Verbum (1965). It is worth a read. Or, I excerpted a couple of relevant quotations from it in my most recent entry.
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The Bible shows people having conversations with God all the time. Records, songs, journals, and letters make up the Bible. God speaks, and we obey. We know it is God and not our own voice when it lines up with the Bible. The notion that God does not speak, or we do not need moment by moment revelation from God is something I disagree with. The written Word of God reveals how this relationship works. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. How He was with the early Church relating to His Body, He continues to this day. He does not remain silent in these days.
I grew up in ashrams watching people levitate so find this a bit funny. Jesus calling has been a beautiful balm for my soul recently and brought me closer to God.
The new age notion is crazy, not sure how a reference to a cocoon of light would lead someone astray, her writing couldn’t be further from the hippie new age stuff I came out of to find Jesus waiting.
Why do we freak out so much about black and white, God found me in my cocoon of grey, found others I know in their deception, He is right there waiting. We often freak out on His behalf when he is so gracious, leading through and out at the tight time..not ruffled at all.
I suggest you read the first pages of this book. In no way is she saying Jesus is talking to her verbatim as is A Course in Miracles. She is describing her experiences in verse and prose elegantly with profound awareness through the Holy Spirit. Sometimes, it is good to get our head out of the books and meditate in Spirit and in Truth, if not always. This is abundantly clear through her writings, which are meant to describe the Eternal Perspective.
“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me;and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father,and I will love him AND WILL DISCLOSE MYSELF TO HIM.” He says this THREE TIMES in different ways. in John.
“These things we also speak, not in words which ‘man’s wisdom’ teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” The Spirit guides us in our pursuit of truth through the Word of God. He teaches us by convicting us of sin, affirming truth in our hearts, and opening our understanding to the depth of God’s revealed truth. As you’ve probably experienced many times, He often brings to mind appropriate verses and truths from Scripture at just the night moment.
First John 2:27 says, “The anointing which you have received from Him [Christ] abides in you…as His anointing TEACHES YOU about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.” Why does a Christian continue in Christ and not follow after cults and false doctrine? Because of the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit.
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I have read the comments on this page and would like to make just one point about Jesus Calling and hearing his voice: I just finished Jesus Calling and I am giving copies of this book to my family and friends. I love the book and the book spoke to my heart. Sarah Young is a WONDERFUL writer and I love her. Secondly, the written word of God is absolutely essential, BUT in my experiences, I have also received instruction from God through his voice, a dream, and through adversity. If you really want to be successful and maximize your full potential in life, one must not limit his God experiences to the bible. The bible is needed for food, but his voice is just as important!!! God Bless ALL!!! (:
I appreciate your willingness to comment, but I disagree. And I would ask how you know that what you heard and dreamt came from God and not from Satan or your imagination?
I disagree with you, and feel maybe you are being a bit too critical. I have been a Christian for a long time, but life always seems to get in the way of me spending quiet time reading my Bible. Although I pray daily, I have always struggled with carving aside quiet time with God. Someone gave me this devotion book Jesus Calling. I have been reading the devotion each day and then following up by looking up the scriptures referenced for each devotion. This has helped me focus and get me back into daily Bible reading. I think God will use what is necessary to bring us back on his path. Even a devotion book.
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Oooh, I do love the words “sola scriptura,” so stolid and alliterative. I really do. My only caution is…they’re not in the Bible! Ha!
The irony is furthered when someone uses their “sola scriptura” sharpie to black out Mark 16, the book of Acts, 1 Cor. 12 and 14, and on and on…
I have not read this book, but I love and appreciate your caution toward it. There is incredible damage being done by the introduction of Christianity by experience (rather than faith in the gospel and obedience to Jesus, indicated firstly by submission to Scripture) to believers who are not solid in the gospel, and think the Christian life is of that of reaching higher planes (spiritually or intellectually or otherwise), rather than a war to the death with our deadly “old man,” so one can freely do the Works of God, led by the Spirit (Rom 8). My assertion is that it has amounted to a false gospel, most readily seen in the charismatic church (I say that having been part of said church for many decades), and is literally pulling believers off of the gospel train into perdition.
I can’t support your method, though, as it is unbiblical in its reduction to nothing but the Bible. People can mistakenly take on this idea, which offers “safety” without any humility or sanctification, or even a Spirit led revelation of the gospel that is regenerative. In other words, one can take on this rule simply with the powers of the mind to trust in (no need for God), and end up in suprisingly deceived destinations…Catholic, even! No, this is like avoiding divorce by never getting married. Or like honoring the precision of a yardstick by rejecting anything that might need measuring!
Can I just repeat this? I love your question: “How do you know it was not Satan or your imagination?” This is the right question! I just want to assure you that there is an answer! It is found in the Bible, and I will leave it at that, because I should blog on my site, not yours.
So again, love your purpose, receive the warning with joy and agreement, but must reject your method.
I certainly don’t mean that we don’t need the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He is our comforter and our teacher. But I don’t think that means pursuing contemplative methods of “hearing from him” or experiencing things. We need to be grounded in the Bible and looking for our answers in it, as we do the Holy Spirit absolutely illuminates its meaning for us. Also I do believe the Spirit can impress needs upon to us to pray for someone, or break our hearts so that we look at people with compassion and reach out to them.
As for words not being in the Bible that are supported by the Bible, Trinity is a great example. The word doesn’t appear in the Bible, but the book absolutely teaches and affirms the concept of one God in three persons. Perhaps I have not done a perfect job explaining Sola Scriptura, but that doesn’t mean the concept isn’t Biblical. I was just listening to this fantastic audio clip from John MacArthur the other day, that might help clarify a bit.
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What is a relationship if we can’t hear from the other person?? What if my husband never spoke to me? Why would I want a silent relationship with Jesus? Makes no sense to me? When we read the Bible we see things in a way we never saw the other times we read the very same passages. Why? Because God is revealing himself each time in a way that is fresh to us. The very word “relationship” implies a two way communication. Sarah’s revelations are profound and real to her and I see no reason why she shouldn’t be allowed to share them. Do you have a living, real relationship with Jesus?
… dialogue journaling,….yearning for more, ….Jesus Calling grew out of writings gleaned from my times of focused concentration of Jesus, waiting in His Presence, listening in my mind for His communications, ….golden light, ……brilliant light, ….“To dwell in thought on the material, when once you live in Me, – is to call it into being. So you must be careful only to think of and desire that which will help, not hinder, your spiritual growth. Think Love and Love surrounds you and all about whom you think, Think thoughts of ill-will and ill surrounds you, and those about whom you think. Think health – health comes, ….and etcetera! My question is this, has Sarah Young received the Lord Jesus Christ as her Saviour and Lord at all? What is her story to this effect? What about the 2 authors of her guiding book God Calling? Feelings? Faith only in Christ? The above experiences by herself and her spiritual guides are definitely similar to New Age experiences and are unscriptural. There are no precedents in the Holy Bible. These are open pathways to error and deception. As children of God, we do not need to “be careful only to think and desire that which will help” as they teach. Our salvation did not come and does not work that way. It is a free gift received by faith in the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible clearly teaches that the anointing which we have received teaches us all things and we have no need to hope or desire for more than what the Holy Spirit teaches us from the WORD of God, the BIBLE. We are told to test every spirit to verify if they be from God. “Spirit” in Greek is pneuma, air, breath. Any method of receiving from God, the Father, that is unbiblical and not experienced by the rest members of the Body of Christ is of the evil one. Period! Also the Bible warns that the spirit of error aims to snatch, if possible, the elect from the Lord, Christ Jesus. Let the Word of Christ dwell in you with all wisdom and Jesus Christ is the Wisdom of God anyone would ever need. Praise God! Hebrews 13:5-6: Let your conversation be without COVETOUSNESS and be content with what ye have,for He hath said (HE ALREADY SPOKEN IN HIS HOLY WORD, I DO NOT NEED HIM TO SPEAK ANYMORE): I will never leave thee nor forsake thee. The BIBLE is good enough for me and members of my family, amen. Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift! Yours in Christ, Stephen Alai. Lagos, Nigeria.
Hi, I am reading Sarah’s devotional words right now. I, too, feel the author is bold in writing in Jesus’ voice. However, as a longtime Christian of mature age, I am able to read the words and discern my own take on them because I am familiar with the Bible. As a writer of Christian books, I sometimes wonder if people are reading my words instead of the scriptures. Like Sarah, I encourage reader to read the Bible. I include many reference to scripture as I write. Sarah does this, too. Christians young in the faith would do well to learn the Bible first, and then they can feel more comfortable reading others’ words, which are no different from what any preacher anywhere is saying. More importantly, I think the discussion should be about our religious experiences in our relationship to God. I want to feel Jesus’ presence even more as I grow in the faith. My feelings, though, must always be grounded in the truth of the word. Frankly, Sarah’s feelings are lining up with many things I have been going through lately, including two major experiences with grief. I appreciate the time she has taken to share her knowledge of the scripture, her feelings, and her admission that her words do not trump the Bible.
Sherry,
Thank you for your respectful disagreement. I hope you’ll consider my response as graciously as you have commented. You say you are mature enough to sift through Sarah’s book. I have no reason to think that you aren’t, but I think we humans have a tendency to overestimate our resistance to deception. I firmly believe we are all (myself included) in danger of being deceived and coming to accept unbiblical teachings. As far as I can tell the best way to avoid this is to study the scripture and avoid trying to pick grains of truth out of error-laden information. Over and over again the epistles command us to hold fast to sound doctrine, to study to word and that scripture is what we need.
Second, I think as Christians we should never tire of the Bible. I find myself wanting to understand it more each day. Sarah admits she was discontented with the Bible and longing for an experience. How is that right? Also, if we were to look for experiences I believe God would have told us to do that and told us how to in his Word.
It is true that written human words are no different from preaching, but we should flee from either one if they are dangerous to our souls and our walk with Christ.
I’m sorry that you are grieving, but I think you can find comfort in the Word of God itself and I certainly hope through the love of people around you who can extend physical comforting on behalf of the Almighty God.
Lastly, I think by speaking as she has in the voice of Jesus she isn’t just bold, I think she’s made an enormous error. God takes his words very seriously as we can see from the warning of Revelation 22:18 “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.” Also anyone claiming to have gotten direct revelation from God is putting themself in the position of “prophet.” And God deals harshly with false ones.
Sarah may be a lovely person and could be very well-intentioned, but based on my understanding of scripture I think this book is dangerous.
I have just stated reading this book and really enjoy it….now i wonder if I should read it. i have just come back to God!
Hi Janie! Praise the Lord that you’ve come back to him. Why turn to someone else’s words when we have God’s in our Bibles? There is so much encouragement to be found in it. Be careful and God bless.
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Jesus help me to believe, help me to believe its true
that when I lay down at night the voice I hear is You
You calm my fears, erase all doubt and teach me what Your loves about
Jesus help me to believe, that its really true
You came to the world to serve and save and raise mankind from the eternal grave
You could have come as a king but You sacrificed all and gave everything
You gave Your life so I could live and taught me how to truly give
I wait and wait for Your return
my hearts on fire and my spirit burns
For the day when its all new
I will shout to heaven ” It is True”
Oh, my Lord I believe in You !!!
Biblical? No, but inspired by the voice of the Holy Spirit. Maybe we should all rest from doing Gods work and just listen and rest in Him.
In Gods Love
That still doesn’t address the problem of how you know where this “voice” is coming from and that it is from God and not the devil. Not to mention that I cannot find anything in scripture that, when taught in context, tells us to wait around and listen for God’s voice. We denigrate his word when we say I’m going to listen for him to personally speak to me instead of doing the hard work of understanding the Word (Bible) he has already given us and applying it to our lives.
I realize there are many who disagree with my understanding of scripture on this issue, but I hope you’ll understand that my concern is out of love for all of you who are listening for God. I don’t want you to be deceived!
Where to start in such a fulsome blog site, though I would assert that Stephen John is well attuned to God’s Spirit/Holy Spirit, and I quote the text that held my attention ““He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me;and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father,and I will love him AND WILL DISCLOSE MYSELF TO HIM.” He says this THREE TIMES in different ways in John” There is a great truth here to which no believer can subscribe to – unless three things have taken/take place viz., (1) a deep love of the Logos – that is the pure Word of God as inspired by Holy Spirit – (2) a yearning for His indwelling presence (which does imply a process of sanctification & not sanctimoniousness) (3) the vital experience of having received the fullness of Holy Spirit at some time in life, and being enabled by the same Spirit to continue to receive (one Baptism + responsive fillings) Only then does that text – AND I WILL DISCLOSE MYSELF TO HIM – become a Divine truism. A snippet here, a quiver of one’s spirit there – do not satisfy for long, and one never knows of a possible intrusion by an alien spirit! Yet to hear from God is every true Christian’s justifiable right, but it requires strong application, and is not an automatic blessing. At such a juncture in a Christian’s life you should expect to hear Holy Spirit speaking directly to the heart (from time to time) For clarification I am of the belief that such two way contact will come (certainly not through books or other persons experiences) by way of specific spiritual gifts – prophecy -praying in tongues – words of wisdom but usually and nearly always in your ‘private places of devotion. I know of one Minister who has heard Holy Spirit speak to him audibly, and I testify to the same one and only experience. Soak up the Word of God and no false spirit can ever get to you – and those who doubt there being such a ‘business’ as Holy Spirit Baptism (Jesus does the Baptising) should search scripture very carefully – cessationism in my book is nonsense! Luke 11:13 is one of many references.
I have both books mentioned, “Jesus Calling,” and “God Calling.” The introduction in “God Calling”, from the two listeners, says,
“We felt all unworthy and overwhelmed by the wonder of it, and could hardly realize that we were being taught, trained and encouraged day by day by Him (Jesus) personally, when millions of souls, far worthier, had to be content with guidance from the Bible, sermons, their churches, books and other resources.”
The Bible doesn’t seem to hold a very precious place for these two ladies. Unfortunately I don’t think they tested the spirit that they were supposedly channeling either. The entry for Dec. 24th, supposedly from Christ Jesus himself reads,
“Yes! but remember the first Hail must be that of the Magi in the Bethlehem stable.” —-WHAT! Jesus apparently doesn’t remember that the shepherds came first, THEN the magi showed up quite awhile later, like almost two years late, and it wasn’t at the stable. Why does “Jesus” contradict the Biblical account of his own birth to these ladies? The answer is, because these ladies were NOT hearing from Jesus Christ, God Eternal, or the Holy Spirit. So why would a Christian want to waste their time reading words from someone else, who admittedly was not content w/God’s Word, the Holy Scriptures? In another entry on pg. 60 “Jesus” tells them, “I need you more than you need me.” This flies in the face of our need for a savior, a redeemer, a sacrifice for sins. How can Jesus need us more than we need him? This is very sad and I think these ladies were deceived, by what I don’t know, either a demonic spirit, their own imaginations or both. When someone claims to speak for Jesus Christ himself, and it doesn’t match w/ God’s account, the Bible, don’t listen. I could go on about this book that exalts itself against the Word of God, the falsities are many but lets move on to the other book by Sarah Young, “Jesus Calling.”
Sarah Young read the above mentioned book, “God Calling” and was so inspired that she decided to receive messages from Jesus too. On June 14th, pg 173, she received this from Jesus, “Sometimes you felt naked–exposed to the revealing Light of My Presence. I wrapped an ermine robe around you: My robe of righteousness. I sang you a Love song, whose beginning and end are veiled in eternity.” Jesus is going to cloth us with fur? He already did that in the Garden of Eden as a temporary covering. He does not need to kill an animal to cover us. His blood was shed once for all. Here again we have something that just doesn’t jive w/ what God’s Word says. If these were just her ideas and thoughts then we would not have to be so concerned. However, when anyone claims to get direct revelation from God and it doesn’t line up with God’s Word then we have a problem. Christians, please don’t waste your time w/ either of these two books. That being said, I do not despise sound teaching or anything that submits itself to the Word of God. God calls us to preach the Word. I will end with Paul’s charge to Timothy.
II Timothy 3:16—17 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be COMPLETE, thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work.”
Then Paul said, “PREACH THE WORD!”
I appreciate you! So much so that I linked your post to my blog. Thank you for asking the hard questions, for standing for the sufficiency of Scripture, and doing both with so much grace.
Fabulous! Sarah just shared this article to me. I hadn’t heard of your blog before. I’ll be checking it out more.
Wonderful! Glad to have you here.
Thank you, my brothers and sister soft sharing your gifts with us. I so love the Word of God and need it every day! I want to share this: God is Love. His Spirit, therefore, is lone of” Love, Power and Self-control”. There is nothing we must fear, therefore, but that which is not loving of God, Other, Self. God speaks to us through His Word, but we can only really glean understanding if we are filled with His Spirit of Love. Youngs writings are loving of God, other and herself, and I read them with an appreciation of the spiritual gifts He gave her. They are not a substitute for the Word, but they are “new gems of truth”. Thank you and God bless our various gifts of the Spirit as we discuss His awesome and amazing Love!
I read the intro to the Jesus Calling book and hit the page where Sarah Young states that she wanted something more besides the Bible and then started writing her revelations. I was stunned and showed the page to some friends that this is divination and the same sort of stuff Nostradamus was doing or looking at tea leaves or some such.
After I read that page in the book I stopped reading the book right there because the rest would be tainted by whatever voice she was getting her revelations from. That was a very disturbing thought and I couldn’t with good conscience think that anything in the rest of the book would be good or pure or worth putting her so-called “inspired” stuff into my head.
It’s amazing that she would even admit to being such a prophet! Doesn’t the Bible say that prophets held to certain standards or else they are to be stoned to death? I’m not sure she’s calling herself a prophet but she sure is acting as though she is with these revelations that she sharing.
I thought I’d search the internet to see if anyone else noticed that and found your page. I think you’re right-on with what you wrote. The book is a real shame too because the cover was nicely leather bound and had “Jesus Calling” embossed on the cover and it was a Christmas gift from a friend but as you probably know, you can’t judge a book by it’s cover. So we now have 67 books of the bible? This books going in the trash.
‘ SOLA SCRIPTURA ”
Did you know that the bible refers us to secular books and other books of scripture that are NOT IN THE BIBLE ! Nathan , Gad , Asher , Jasher …
Isn’t the rest of the story of Mordicai told in the cronicles of the kings of the Media and Persia Esther 10-2
KNOCK KNOCK
Yes, but that doesn’t make them Scripture.
The Point here is the God Himself refers Us to other information. Some committee decided what was ” cannon ” I tell people that the answer to everything is in the bible and yet I am not against looking at the lost books of the bible or cronicles of the world that support scripture. The Catholic bible has several more books in it.
Rhema is also another way to learn from Yahweh. I was hearing God 4 years before I believed that that was what was happening. The Holy Spirit wooed me until I got it !
There was NO HUMAN that could have done this. I used to send the Jesus people down the road running for theie lives. I asked Yahweh about this after I believed and HE told me that they didn’t really believe or they wouldnt have ran. Phil. 1-28 is the scripture here !
The bible tells us to ” HEAR YAHWEH’S VOICE AND OBEY ! ”
I have NO FEAR and I stand and deliver the message exactly as quotyed to me by God. NO amount of opposition or amount of weapons can deter me. I have step by step councel of the Holy Spirit and so does everyone eles that believes. Come against ME devil and bare witness to the Power of the Holy Spirit. When I first believed, I went out hunting the devil and after a couple of days I had that sucker by the throat. I had ME or rather MY carnal nature by the throat.
I was series Honor Man out of Marine Corps boot camp.The best of the best of 300. Yahweh told me that He wanted the same zeal with My going through God’s boot camp. I heard and obeyed.
All Abraham had was rhema. Grace is Power, Power to will and do Yahweh’s will. go back to the written instructions and You have fallen from Grace. The bible is our plumb line and foundation but it doesn’t tell me to turn right or left and that the person that just came by is my next appiontment !
Rhema or step by step councel of the Holy Spirit is the only way that that happens.
Regardless of the author of this bashing of Sarah Youngs opinions or motives…there is no doubt that the writings collected in her books are absolutely the devinely inspired personalized message in desparate times directly from Almighty Gods heart to us…individualized…perfect.
I guess I shouldnt be suprised that anyone would try to attack an author of such powerful persuasion…doing such wonderful work as one of Gods children…helping her brothers and sisters.
Get busy living will you?! Or not…free will….
2 Timothy 3:16-17 makes it clear that ALL scripture is everything we need to be adequate and equipped to live in Christ. Right? it seems we no longer believe in the sufficiency of scripture and seek voices, signs and wonders instead of being content with “Christ crucified” & the word of God.
Has anyone researched the Two Listeners and the movement (the Oxford Group) they were members of which in turn influenced Sarah Young to begin sitting and listening for God to “speak?” it is an interesting trail.
The first person writing style of Jesus Calling is what raised a red flag for me…it should for others.
Then researching the editor of The Two Listeners down to the Oxford Group and then to where this group is today sheds much light to the practice of sitting and journaling.
“Quiet Time” takes on a whole new meaning after reading some of these articles.
So, my question – how does God “speak” to us today? there have been times where I sensed a prompting or thoughts that come to mind regarding everyday decisions and went with what came to mind believing it was the Spirit leading me. at times the thought (prayed over) that came to my mind came actually happened. other times, it must had been my wishful thinking for it did not happen.
more than a few times in my christian walk, my heart will begin racing and i get a prompting that the Lord is confirming something that i had previously prayed about and i have a firm resolve (faith) that it (the answer to prayer) will happen and it does. I do not rely on these times, do not seek them it just happens. a for instance would be – seeking and praying for a job while unemployed. the boss of a company mentioned (to a group of people) they needed a specific position filled, my heart began thumping, i began to tear up asking the Lord if he was confirming in me that this was going to be my job. a couple of months passed and someone else mentioned this position and the same thing happened. this happened one more time. i spoke to no one about it and was confident this was going to be my new job. it came to pass about 4 months later i took that position. like i mentioned this has been very few times.
I know this is not sitting with a pen and paper to listen and claim it is God or Jesus “calling” which is a practice of the Oxford Group.
This has left me with wondering, how the Lord prompts today as we pray and ask for guidance – how does he answer us if He does not “speak” to us – when praying, should i go ahead with this surgery, should i switch jobs, etc.?
pondering.
Hi Allie, thanks for commenting. This is certainly a hard issue when you want to sincerely do the right thing. Two books (other than the Bible which is most important) helped me in this area. Gary Gilley’s Is That You Lord and Kevin DeYoung’s Just Do Something.
Thanks, I’ll take a look.
Hey Julia, I’m accidentally still getting notifications for this thread (I “subscribed” to it, and am not sure how to make it stop), but something just occurred to me that is relevant to this that I probably didn’t even know about back in July. You might find it interesting.
The Catholic Church teaches that there will be no further Revelation in the sense of God’s sovereign message to His whole people. Jesus was the Word, the ultimate, definitive Revelation of God to man, and with His Ascension and the passing of the witnesses to His life (the Apostles), “public” Revelation was closed, and there won’t be any more, beyond what we have in Scripture and Tradition. The Eastern Orthodox Church agrees with this teaching: in fact, they don’t even hold any council beyond the first seven ecumenical ones to have any binding authority on the whole Church.
There are a couple of upshots from this: first, the Church is not free to “make up” stuff and claim it is “Tradition,” as I’ve heard some Protestants charge. Everything the Church teaches from Tradition is backed up by centuries and centuries of documentary evidence, and the Magisterium can’t make up stuff that isn’t already part of the deposit of faith. But more relevant to this discussion is that the Catholic mystics (and Eastern mystics, too, e.g. the Desert Fathers) about whom you’ve expressed concern don’t and haven’t and can’t proclaim any message that likewise isn’t already part of the deposit of faith. When they claim a supernatural revelation, whether through a vision or apparition or any other mystical experience, it’s what the Church calls “private” revelation. “Private” revelation can’t reveal anything new; it isn’t binding on the whole Church; and no one of the faithful is required to believe it. Its only function is to support what has already been revealed, to admonish or encourage the faithful. In cases of private revelation, the Magisterium of the Church investigates quite rigorously) and declares whether it’s worthy of anybody’s belief (if they so choose to believe it) or a bunch of heretical hooey. See the Catechism, 65-67, especially 67:
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Great article. I will preface that I am a continuationist and believe that the gifts of the spirit are alive today. And your stance of cessationism or continuationism will lead to different conclusions about Jesus calling. Thought I am a continuationist, I believe just like anything else it can become unbalanced because of Satan and sincerity to be close with God. So I will agree on imbalance but I disagree on total cessationism. The imbalance is when the Word of Wisdom/Word of Knowledge(1 Cor 12:8) or that voice that we hear (John 10:27) contradicts or becomes exalted above the Bible (Ps 119:89). The other imbalance in general with continuationism is when the gifts of the spirit(1 cor 12, Romans 12, Ephesians 4,1 Peter 4) are exalted above the fruits of the spirit(Gal 5:22-23), especially the first fruit listed which is love. 1 Cor 13 talks about the fact that love is more important then the gifts themselves. When the imbalance occurs then the strength of our relationship with God and confidence of our salvation becomes dependent on seeing gifts all the time and having an emotionally charged environment. The gifts need to come because the Holy Spirit deems it necessary for edification and evangelism to whomever He chooses not for us to feel more certain about salvation.
Revolutionary faith has a good post on this : http://revolfaith.com/2012/10/09/the-holy-spirit-fruits-vs-gifts/
Sara Young is doing nothing more than witnessing through her own experience. If you think anything other than that, then it’s on you!
I received Sarah Young’s book, “Jesus Calling” from a dear, well-meaning, born-again Christian friend who loves me. I began to read through it. I must admit that I got “warm fuzzies” from what I read. It was very engaging in its encouragement – like having a personal cheerleader waiting there JUST FOR ME each day. But I had to put it down. I’ve seen another friend, at church, carry it around with her as she would her Bible. Recently, someone I love and respect quoted from “Jesus Calling” at the end of a Bible class she was teaching. And, when I asked other friends – a well-respected Christian couple I know – what they thought about Jesus Calling, they told me they’ve been using it for several years, as part of their daily devotion time. I have been disheartened to discover the widespread acceptance of this book among born-again, Bible-believing evangelical Christians and I feel very alone in my grave concerns about it. The negative and defensive responses I’ve received from some people, about my concerns, has made me reluctant to share these concerns with other believers – fearing I might alienate them or lose friendships. It would be easier for me to keep silent and let someone else take the heat, but I must speak out – regardless of the fallout.
What troubles me most about Sarah Young’s book is that she is writing in the “first person,” as if Jesus Christ is speaking. I’ve never read a Christian devotional book that is completely written in first person. A writer may say, “I feel/think the Lord is saying to me…” or ” in this verse it seems that God is saying…” or something like that. Writers in these cases are at least humble enough to claim they are not God speaking, but speaking what they think God’s Word means or means to them. They are admittedly writing as fallible human beings – in essence, saying that they may be wrong. They are not exalting themselves to the position of “God speaking,” but acknowledging God is God, they are not, and they are making their best human attempt to convey what they think God means in His Word. Sarah Young does not do this. She does not say, in every daily devotion: this is what I think God MEANS by this verse. She is speaking as Jesus Christ – as GOD!
Preachers and Bible teachers will help others understand and apply God’s Word to their lives by elaborating on it, or giving examples that people can relate to. But if they stand before a congregation and state that what they are saying (other than quoting Scripture) is God’s Word, it is heresy! Sarah Young contradicts herself by supposedly speaking as Jesus Christ, and yet states that, “I knew these writings were not inspired as Scripture is…” and “The Bible is, of course, the only inerrant [without error] Word of God; my writings must be consistent with that unchanging standard.” Sarah Young contradicts herself because, if Jesus Christ is speaking directly “through her,” then what she wrote is the “word” of God. Logically, if it is the “word” of God, then it must be inerrant. (That’s a tall claim for a human author to make about her writing.)And she’s already proved that her “word” is not inerrant because she’s contradicted herself. The inerrant Word of God does not contradict itself!
It comes down to this. Either “Jesus Calling” is Jesus Christ giving new revelation about Himself to the church (the Body of Christ) or it isn’t. Either it is God’s Word, or it isn’t. Joseph Smith “received” what he claimed was additional revelation from “the angel Meroni,” and the cult of Mormonism was born. Sarah Young claims she has received direct communication from Jesus Christ, and untold masses of sincere Christians are itching to hear it. In 1 Timothy 4:1 God warns believers: “Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons…” If “Jesus Calling” is not Jesus Christ speaking, then the spirit Sarah Young has listened to is not the Holy Spirit, but a deceiving spirit (one that is not what it seems to be). If Satan appears as an angel of light, could not a demonic spirit mimic what sounds okay (Acts 16:16-18), and even somewhat innocuous…at first? My concern is for the Body of Christ. The sleepy frog, increasingly warmed by the water in the heating pot, is lulled into a boiling death before it realizes what’s happening. If Sarah Young has “channeled” a deceiving spirit, then is it possible that well-meaning Christians are giving habitual, daily ground in their minds/souls to the “doctrine of demons?” The enemy of our souls is a master of deception; the most effective deception is subtle, slow, and repeated. Is it possible that, once under the influence of the repetetive deception of “Jesus Calling,” unsuspecting Christians may find it hard to extricate themselves from this influence? And, if it is possible for Christians to become subtly entrenched in a deceptive mindset – under the regular influence of a deceptive spirit – what if this spirit begins to slowly introduce more and more “unthinkable heresies?” Will a “darkened understanding” be able to discern them?
If the Bible is God’s unchanging, completed Word, then it is. I believe that it is. If it is not, then it can be added to, like any other morally relativistic human document. If there is not a standard, separating what God’s Word is and isn’t, then anything can arguably be added to God’s Word as “god’s word.” The book of Mormon has “evolved” and changed over the years – with content being added and deleted – to gain further acceptance as cultural changes (like civil rights) occurred in America. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 says, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” Is the Bible now changing – morphing into a ever-expanding repository of “god’s additional word?” God forbid. I am urging you – fellow, beloved believers – to wake up, before the water boils. Satan’s time is short and deception – like the heat of that water in the pot – is increasing. Please do not fall for it.
Julie – your words echo my own. It is heart-breaking.
Thank you Julie for being bold in your beliefs and exposing this book. I read your post and some of the comments from it. I’m a mother who has lost her daughter to beliefs like Sarah Young. It crept in very inconspicuous and very slow. It fed her desire to want more and more spirituality and less of the bible. After all, she was experiencing wonderful gifts and insights from these “spirit guides”. She interpreted the bible to fit what these “spirit guides” told her. She became proud and started demanding respect from us because after all it was “God” who gave her these gifts. She was special now and demanded to be treated as such. Like I said it started so slowly that we didn’t notice. That’s what Satan does. He intices his victims with visions and so called “whispers from God.” I don’t need or want to read a book that claims the words came from Jesus. The only book that has words from Jesus is the bible.
Thanks Julia for blog post, and Julie K for comments. You’re not alone in your worry about this book.
Sarah Y’s desire “I had the Bible, but I wanted more”?! That’s a huge red flag. That stmt alone indicates that the being she heard from is not the Spirit of the LORD. The Holy Spirit always glorifies Christ Jesus (John 16:14) Since Jesus is the Word of God, we would expect God’s Holy Spirit to point to the Bible as being sufficient.
Also, her devotional for July 8th reads “I am above all, as well as in all…” That is NOT TRUE!! God/Jesus is not “IN ALL” — that is the heresy of panentheism (God in all) & it’s counterpart pantheism (God is all).
God still speaks to us today — THRU His Word (the Bible)!! Hebrews 4:12 “For the Word of God is living and active and sharper than a two-edged sword, and piercing … able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”
We need to get in the Word! — God’s Word, not Sarah’s. Thanks again for this post & for all the comments. God Bless, ~Brenda
Thanks for the review. After reading it I think I will Definitely get this book Because I Want to be influence by the opposite of what you are so I don’t end up full of fear, judgmental, and Have poor theology. Thanks again
I have this book and I am enjoying it and find it comforting. God said his word will not return void, his words are in the scriptures listed on each page. If you don’t like this book throw it out, better yet give it to some hurting person who needs to know God loves them.
His Word is the scripture, not the words she is writing down. I absolutely agree that His Word does not return void, but these are her words and she is putting them in Jesus’ mouth.
People should take comfort in the scriptures themselves, not in someone’s statements that they supposedly heard from the Lord.
Sc, I agree with you. I really like this little book that my daughter was kind enough to give me. God says his word will not return void. I enjoy the thoughts and accompanying scriptures this author has compiled. God speaks to people’s hearts in a way that I can’t, my job is to love them and live a Christlike life by God’s grace.
The ” WORD ” is a person and a book and everything else that we ” SEE ” . God is All and in All .
In the context of ” Faith comes by Hearing and Hearing by the WORD .” The WORD here is the Holy Spirit “. All one has to do is look it up. So Faith comes by Hearing and Hearing the Holy Spirit talk to YOU personally. How would You put it ?
It’s not a trick to have a relationship with God. One just need to spend time with one’s TEACHER.
The Holy Spirit is our TEACHER and our GUIDE and many other things. If You are not into being ,,,Taught By God , You”re are probably into TRADITIONS OF MEN !
The people operating in fear and judgement , TELL ON THEMSELVES ! The mouth is a tell all !
The people seeking the Love of God will find it. The more you search the Greater Your Rewards will be. Hear Yahweh’s Voice and Obey ! So it will be well with You ! You will hear a voice behind You telling You to go to the right or go to the left . My Sheep hear My voice.
It’s Like Me and the Holy Spirit walking behing Me and I am getting the step by step councel as we go , another view I ” SEE ” is sitting in Father’s lap on the Throne and watching Jesus work out everything in me while Father teaches Me every move.
This is pretty wild guys and I would not want anyone to miss it. I just got snached up to take the course. I didn’t know God and didn’t want to know God and didn’t believe there was such a One !
Hay ,I was goofey ! A Fool ! So What , You ought to ” SEE ME NOW BABY ! ”
There are many names for the enemy and each name discribes another charateristic if it’s personality or way of deception ???
There are many names for the Holy Spirit and each mane discribes another charateristis of His personality or way that He come to you. Teacher, Wonderful Councelor, Guide, Comforter ,,,.
The Teacher may stand You in the corner, whlie the Comforter will pat You on the po po and tell You that everything will be OK ! The Holy Spirit , ONLY testifies of Jesus , YAHSHUA !
The Holy Spirit will get You to be like Jesus, while the angel of light will try to get You to be like it !
The Holy Spirit will lead You into All Truth , while the enemy will lead You into mostly truth !
” TRUTH ” is a person Too ! The WAY , the TRUTH and the LIFE are the names of the gates into the Temple as one goes from the outside into the Holy of Holies. Hmmmmm ?
” I AM the Way , the Truth and the Life ”
Any Way , the best primmer on the subject that I know of is ” Counceled by God ‘ by Virkler
If You want to improve YOUR Relationship with God, read that book and get on with it !
Good thought. I read the journal, but I write the scriptures in the journal. Focusing on scripture and remembering them. This way one will not get misled.
The concern would be greater if people do not study scripture and open the bible along with the journal.. Study to show your self approved…
This is what I do in order to stay on the right path.
Who wrote the scriptures that you believe so strongly with closed eyes? Psychologically, you believe so strongly what you listen to first 12yrs of their life as child. Just because some people get to hear something thro their society and parents – that cannot be the ONLY way. I can call sugar in different language. Calling it in english alone will not make it sweet.
closed minded – sugar is sweet. and english language is the only way to express and taste it for real.
open minded – sugar is sweet. people call it differently in different language. But the taste is what actually matters and it remains the same however you call it.
God says he inspired the Bible and that it is sufficient. 2 Timothy 3:16 and 17 “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.”
It seems to me that some of you are so open minded that I’d say you are too open minded you’ll let anything or out from anyone and call it Scripture, even dreamed up words from someone who “claims” to get direct knowledge from God? In the past scrutiny was placed on “Scriptures” and many were thrown out until what we have is the Canon. For some of you, though, no scrutiny is placed on anything texts and you’ll just swallow anything including poison. Don’t you see how it is killing your soul?
It is radical to think the Bible is really God’s truth and that lady’s ramblings isn’t! Who would listen to a radical like Jesus espousing crazy talk like “the truth” anyway! It is much easier to just go with the flow and listen to every wind of doctrine and what tickles our ears!
She meant it as an inspirational book and I’d be OK with an inspirational book except she comes out and says that she’s getting direct special revelation from God and what you are reading in that book she claims is direct from God to her to you. That’s unscriptural and just plain makes me wonder why other’s think it is cool with them to read anything in that book when it is obviously not God’s word or truth and therefore blatant lies of the devil. The devil does that where he mixes God’s truth with subtle lies. That’s my estimation of her book. Yeah, it is a pet peeve with me and I don’t understand why it is not a pet peeve with more Christians. Oh well, I’m a weirdo christian I guess that believes the Bible is truth and everyone else a liar.
The Bible in Galatians 1:6-9 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel– 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Revelation 22:18,19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Why would anyone want to “add to” God’s word or act like a prophet getting direct revelation from God when there’s such strong warnings in the Bible. Why would any Christian say that such words are just fine and dandy with them after reading such strong warnings? Are you really saved by the blood of Jesus or do you just have some wishy washy spirituality? I could understand the latter but not the former. Therefore, judge yourself whether you really are saved, if you have Jesus as your Savior you have the life otherwise you are condemned and need to find out how to be saved!
Go Julia and hold to God’s Word like a candle in a dark place until the Day Star (Jesus) arises and returns! It will be glorious! The lady who deceives and says she speaking for Jesus will be ashamed and in serious trouble when He returns and so will all those who follow her and her false teachings.
I hear directly from God and the way that I was taught was that , ” The Word first came from God and then from the others who heard it.” I see this as ” mixed with faith. ” God spoke to the people first and man was a comfirming word that they heard God correctly.
A lady came up to me at lunch and said ‘ I hear that you can hear the voice of God, I said yes Mam ” She wanted to know what God said about her son. I told her that the work that God had begun in him , He would complete. She cried and said , That is what He told Me !.
It’s not a trick to have a relationship with Your Father. Step by step councel is a promise !
God has being trying to get this accross for a while now. Jer. 7 & 9 call for the people to Hear God’s voice and Obey , so it will be WELL with You !
There are many voices in the world and None without their SIGNIFICATION ! This goes to signature, the voice will put their signature on what they are trying to get You to do.
There is much deception in this world and it would be well for you to learn your lessons before you get into acting aut oor saying God has said ???? Being decieved by an evil spirit is what the enemy does. That is its job. When God called Samuel , Samuel thought it was his Grandad calling Him ??? A fimiliar voice that he trusted. The angel of light is one of the names of the enemy and this is a countyerfit holy spirit. It will quote scripture to You and yet it will want YOU to beat someone with it. John 3-17.
Look up the scriptures stating that God will teach the rimnant in the end times ???
ALL will be Taught by God, Yahweh the almight God !
The Holy Spirit wooed me for four years before I believed. I heard my little voice every day telling me stuff. I was saying , Man this dude is into riddles, Well before that I was saying . Well I’m going nuts now. Well God knows Your every thought and can really get into your head Ha !.
I would say that I didn’t understand something and HE would say , Sure you do it is just like ” something I had done and learned in life and He ran a visiual replay of the event. COOL !
So what I am trying to say is . Get a Revelation and get A Relationship with Father and enjoy Step by Step Councel of Yahweh. He will keep You on the right track. That is what Father’s Do !
have NO FEAR BE of Good Courage ! Follow the instructions !
Have you submitted yourself to test the spirits? Go to your pastor and tell him what you are doing with these spirits that are speaking through you. The Bible says to test the spirits whether they are from God. Go to the local news station and prove to the world that what you say is true and that you’ll be happy to prove it. If you can’t then you should shut up and stop being a fraud.
1John 4:1-3 1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
Basically, if you are hearing voices, most likely, they are not of God since the spiritual gifts have ceased until Jesus’ return. God doesn’t speak to his people like he did during Samuels time. Even from the last old Testament prophet to John the Baptist there was no prophet. After John the Baptist, there was none that spoke for Jesus but the 12 Apostles but they are all gone now.
Hebrews 1:1,2 1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
1 Corinthians 13:8-13 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Basically, what I’m saying, is I don’t believe you. I don’t believe anyone who fraudulently says that they hear God’s voice or spirit voices and can divine what’s going on around them. Peter Popov had a wireless device and fooled a lot of people. Other frauds like him do similar things and fool people. The Bible talks about a girl that the Apostles had to cast out a demon because she could divine things. Are you sure it’s not of the devil deceiving you and others? If you say you have such a spirit speaking through you, then prove it. Don’t give us anecdotal evidence, go before some real authority like a local news station and bring your pastor and prove it to the world otherwise if you are unwilling to do that then you should stop lieing and stop being a fraud.
Yes, I’m being a little harsh but people say all kinds of things and what you are saying is contrary to the scripture in my opinion.
Jim said ,,,
Basically, what I’m saying, is I don’t believe you. I don’t believe anyone who fraudulently says that they hear God’s voice or spirit voices and can divine what’s going on around them
Jim according to my experiences, I wouldn’t believe anyone Knew God at all without hearing His voice in the process. Hearing God’s voice and devining are two different things.
God says, Hear My voice and Obey and not to listen to another voice. Listening to another voice is spiritual adultry.
( Most religeous people have the angel of light as their holy spirit.)
OK , jim here is one for You about evil voices. The spirit of suicide is attacking teens at an alarming rate ! If the councel was , take some more of these pills , what happens ???
If the councel were asking what they are hearing in there mind and teaching some Truth here,we might get some where. Teaching a little, just a most basic level of spiritual warfare . Just like David playing the harp for King Saul to drive the evil spirits away, we can sing our faforite praise song softly and drive away the evil voices that plague some of us.This works every time.Quiten the evil voices and One can hear the Holy Spirit better. Put some praise music on a boom box softly at YOUR NEXT BIBLE STUDY and see who can’t stand it. Hmmmmmmmm ?????
Evil spirits talked to Jesus in His 40 day trial in the desert. The talk to us today. If one doesn’t believe this , they don’t believe scripture. Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. One must have the Spirit of Jesus for this !
Ask Jesus into Your Heart and HE will Lead You into ALL TRUTH !
Hebrews 1:1,2 1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
OK JIM , This is what I am saying. Jesus left us with the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. TRUTH being the person of Jesus. What is the conflict with scripture about hearing God’s voice.
The scripturrs You sighted state HE SPEAKS TO US ! Hellow !
Most people that are into this are into their relationship with Yahweh. No one is trying to rewright scripture or add or take anything from it, just learn more.
THAT would be the enemy that you speak of ! Wheather YOU believe it or not,,, That does not change the facts or Truth ! Evil has many voices that we can hear today.
Look up , ” thorns in the flesh and goads in the eyes”
Bob, I know you don’t want to hear it but those voices are coming from your subconscious not from God. Do what I said, take yourself to an authority who can do a blind test or a double blind test to see if what you’re saying is true. Have your spirit voices quote scripture and explain Jesus and salvation – him dieing on the cross to take away sins. Your voices are just your brain making up stuff and you’re lieing to yourself an to others just as Sara Young is doing. I don’t believe you and I think your head is making stuff up. Sorry but that’s I think. Jesus is in heaven now. In this current age, we pray to him, and he speaks to us through his word. That is all. There is no communication from him to us directly until He returns. That’s the problem I have with Sara Young and with what you are saying. Only prophets hear direct revelation from God and you are not one. The Bible tells all about them. Also if you claim you are a prophet hearing directly from God then there are tests the rest of us are to do to check what you say and if you get even one thing wrong the Bible says we are to stone you to death. Are you really wanting to say that you are a prophet knowing the harsh things and sayings the Bible says about such people? Don’t be a fraud. Stop lieing to yourself if you really think it’s true it’s not. I know you don’t want to hear it but stop living a lie and convincing yourself of something that simply isn’t true.
Here’s what you do Bob, ask your wife or friend to open the Bible to a random page and tell your spirit voices to quote that verse. If it’s just in your head you won’t be able to do it. If it’s from God or an evil spirit then at least you’ll know it’s not you quoting the verse. If you can’t quote it then guess what? (BTW, the swirlingbrain is me Jim Brown, it switched that for some reason).
YEA , LET’S GET RIGHT TO THE TRIAL AND THE STONING !
One can tell how well someone knows Jesus by how they talk about Him !
Jesus and the Boys had some of the same problems I seem to be having with this board.
I was taught by the Holy Spirit about Spiritual communications. Your litttle trial is from what demonination ? That was how I started out, in a bunch sick congregations with God showing me what Not To Do . If we all hook up with the Holy Spirit directly , we wont need religon !
You can ask Jesus into Your heart and He will talk to You also.
Behold, I stand at the door and knock, IF YOY HEAR MY VOICE AND OPEN THE DOOR , I will come in and SUP WIT U and U with Me ! What don’t You understand about this ????
MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, if You don’t You Are NOT !
To open this door refer to Samuel when He first heard God’s voice. Recognize with whom YOU SPEAK !
Double minded = two soules, the soul of the old man and the soul of the new creation in combat. RENEW THE MIND and be Transformed.
John 3-3 You must be born again to ” SEE ” the kingdon,
John 3-5 You must be born of Spirit and Water to ” ENTER ” the kingdom,,
RENEW THE MIND WASHED BY THE WATER OF THE WORD TO ENTER !
When You get born again , Jesus has returned to YOU , Knock Knock !
I call myself a friend of God, You seem bent on putting a lable on it. The testimony of Jesus , Is the Spirit of profecy. Yahshus said that He said Nothing but what He heard the Father say and Did Nothing but what He saw the Father doing, ( Guided by His voice and Vision 24-7 )
Have You guy ever done ! Cor. 14-26 , Everyone has a song a hymm a doctrine, everyone comes with what they learned of the Holy Spirit that week ,,, Your Missing It baby if You haven’t.
Get away from old tired traditions of men and get on with it with God.
This is getting out of control. Calm it down or I’m going to start deapproving comments.
It is a little amusing to me that some of these people are effectively arguing against sola scriptura for entirely the opposite reason that the Catholic Church ever did. “I don’t want to hold myself to Scripture alone because I want to follow God’s direct, personal voice to me!” — because they think they’re getting private revelation, not because they want to maintain the public revelation attested to by the Early Church. … Okay, so it’s really not that amusing. It’s pretty scary.
Though coming from a Pentecostal tradition myself, I try to listen fully to what people are saying before I presume to judge anything. A lot of people speak of “being led by the Spirit” without meaning to say they are receiving private, contrabiblical revelation. It’s perfectly acceptable to say that “God speaks to me” when one is receiving that Word through the Scriptures, or through perceived prompting, guidance, and confirmation in the illumination of Scripture. As long as such “speech” is supported by and fully in line with Scripture, then I don’t think I’m anybody to judge that. What concerns me, and I think what concerns you, are people who think they can “hear God” apart from, beyond, or even against the Scriptures.”
This conversation is leaving far behind the subject of your post and your review of the book, but I am curious whether you would categorically reject anybody who claimed to have been supernaturally visited by Jesus, Who revealed things to him or her. What if whatever He said to them were entirely biblical, He speaking from Scripture? What if, on the other hand, it were entirely consistent with and in line with Scripture, but presented some extrabiblical material? I’m thinking specifically of something like the Sacred Heart of Jesus, which originates in visions St. Margaret Mary Alacoque had of Christ, who revealed to her His pierced, burning Heart, and spoke of His overflowing love and mercy for all humanity. This is an example of what the Church calls private revelation. After a thorough vetting by the Church, finding that no aspect of the revelation was contrary to the revealed Truth of Scripture or Tradition, and that it was “worthy of belief,” several different popes have approved and promoted devotion to the Sacred Heart. As private revelation, it’s not a doctrine that anybody is obligated to accept, and certainly doesn’t have any authority of its own; but to me, it falls in the category of something that’s nice to think about, something wholesome and uplifting and edifying, that can only build up people’s faith and not lead anyone astray.
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